Asking a question, might be controversial

I have a question about some of the solutions Thomas and Jonathan propose to the world’s ills. I hope to discuss and learn

To start with, I offer some caveats:

  • This isn’t personal. I don’t know Thomas and Jonathan personally, but in the parasocial world of podcasting, I like them, and I’d count them as brothers

  • As an Australian, I give the evidence of my regard, as I don’t really think of them as Thomas and Jonathan, but I think of them as the nicknames I have given them

  • As an Australian, I completely understand that I might be missing some cultural elements here; the way the Zeitgeist plays out here is a bit different

  • And its worth noting that I think their analysis of the state of the secular world is spot on. My question is about the solution

  • I also realise that in one sense, these guys are explaining things so we can write books that people will buy, they’re not 100% trying to be visionary teachers

  • I also realise that my concern here is a bit amorphous and vibey, so let’s just talk about it

  • and for anyone who really cares about these things (it’s not a huge deal in Oz) I vote for right leaning politicians


ok, so that out of the way

Here’s my question.

When Thomas and Jonathan talk about the nature of men and how that has been affected by the Zeitgeist and is changing as the Zeitgeist changes, I’m not convinced they articulate well a gospel driven, biblical anthropological good answer


I don’t think men need to get harder and take charge, and do manly things (although they might). I wonder if King David’s mate Jonathan, is someone to take an example from:

  • In 1 Samuel 14.1-14 Jonathan attacks a Philistine outpost with just his armour-bearer because he felt like it

  • In 1 Samuel 18.1-3 Jonathan and David express their love for each other in very intimate terms


I’m wondering (If I can take the liberty of being really nerdy here) if there is an inadvertent, and unhelpful conflation of Genotype and Phenotype. You can still be a strong man with apparent feminine traits.


anyway, I look forward to reading anyones thoughts if they have any :-)